Derren Brown: Archive
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From: Blue Chip
Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 7:19pm
Subject: Re: [Derren Brown] Re: 30 Second Conversational Trance Induction
Well I gotta reply to that haven't I?
Okay first point the question is "How do you know when it has worked" the
rephrase is deliberate, as your answer was "good question, let me talk
about something else"...
>Hi all
>
> >How do you know if you have put someone in trance?
>
>This is a good question, and The Hands shake interupt is one
>method, ( I'll come on to it Later) however, it depends on your
>meaning of trance ....
>
>I mean as you sit there looking at your computer screen, wondering
>what trance is, curious to know how it works, you'll probably begin
>to notice the feeling of your clothes on your skin and as you
>notice, you brgin to smile now that you suddenly realise how easy
>it is for you to go into trance
So when I say "think about your clothes touching your skin" I am putting
you into a trance?
Or are you suggesting that while my senses are overloaded with the
experience of feeling clothes, I miss the command " smile now " and
that is the point of this style of trance?
OOORRR is it some other thing that your example does not explain?
>It doesn't have to be a deep sombulistic trance for it to be
>effective,
effective to/for/against WHAT?
Thinking about my clothes will not cure allergies!
And I think anybody would spot a person in a somnambulistic trance.
> trance is just a deeeply relaxed state of mind..
>
>
>Now for what BC wrote re the Hand Shake Interupt
>
> > I find a change in eye-accessing cues is the most obvious
>indication.
>
>Yes, you'll also get skin tone changes, breathing changes etc
not so obvious to the beginner though
> > You will find this an interesting experiment. My own variant on
>the now popular handshake induction technique.
>
>I like the HS interrupt but, i find it fairly useless in the real
>world as people will think your mad.....
I see it to be quite helpful, but then people don't consider me to be sane
anyway.
>however lets carry on
why not... ;)
> > Offer hand; look at hand; look at person and say "Hello, how <nod
> > and include another glimpse to the hand are yo.." and fade off
> >before the "you" is finished (or whatever words you have chosen to
> >say)
>
>Ok firstly you'll induce confusion, which is fine if you want to do
>that...
Well it is kinda the point of the HSI
>Not so useful if you want to have any type of rapport afterwords
Hence why it is an induction and not an INTROduction. This is NOT a good
technique for a salesman, but works well amongst friends - which is, after
all, where this guy is most likely to be practising.
QOTD: "Reply to the person who presented the question" Dave Lyons
> > The aim is to get the timing so that the handshake WOULD naturally
> >start at the end of the sentence - but the sentence never quite
><ends ... and the hands never quite get round to meeting.
>
>this again will make you look weird.....
Hopefully - that'll be another cognitive path taken up. The art will be in
making them forget it happened...
> > The "fade off" is achieved by pretending that you have just gone
> > into a trance yourself - you know, let your eyes defocus, let
> > your shoulders drop a little, lower your breathing rate -
> > literally pretend to have just gone off into a trance.
>
>DON'T PRETEND TO GO INTO TRANCE - JUST GO INTO TRANCE !!!!!
The word "pretend" was by no means an accident. I stand by it. But
reasoning is long winded and off-topic for now.
> > As you do this, they will almost invariably continue to match your
> > body language and go into a trance themselves. After a second-or-
> > so (sorry for the ambiguity, but you will appreciate it after you
> > have got it to work)
>
>Again this is fine if you are performing,
or running a little experiment to find out what a trance looks like
>But this is no use in everyday situations, how many times will you
>have to practice this to get it right?
four or five personally
>How many people will think your weird?
None, the memory is made irrelevant. You should know all about this Mark,
given what your advertising claims. I think you stand a much better chance
of getting someone to forget that you "wandered off for a second" than you
have of getting and employer with 50 CVs on his desk to forget that the has
other applicants for the job. I am "fascinated" by your "outrageous
claims." But not yet prepared to dismiss them.
> >Let your sight slowly come back, so that you feel in control,
>whilst maintaining ALL other indications that you are in a trance.
>
>BC You can be in trance without having cross eyes!!
Can you!? Cool - I'll practice.
However, pulling my comment back into context again. If you followed the
above instructions, then you would realise that at this point your eyes
are defocussed, so letting your 'sight come back' is a very valid stage of
this specific example.
It is a shame that you dismissed the idea right from the word go - I'm sure
you would have found it more insightful if you had not.
> > Maintaining the eye contact, slowly remove your hand from the
> > equation and DO NOTHING.
>
> > You will be amazed how long people are prepared to stand there
> > with their hand in front of them doing nothing.
>
>Thats because they are totally cofused?
They are struggling for the correct way to respond - is that your
definition of confusion?
>And If you have'nt got it right, they'll either
>a) Run away
>b) Hit you
I kinda cover this later - as I say, don't try this at work Mark. This is
something you HAVE to get right if you are going to apply it to sales, and
even then it won't work on everybody all the time.
BUT This IS a simple way to discover WHAT DOES A TRANCE LOOK LIKE?
For interest, of my friends who helped me develop this art, None of them
Ran Away and None of the Hit Me. I did get a couple of "Are you
alright??!!" comments though. Gave them an apparently valid reason why it
happened and it has never been discussed since.
There are other interesting stories about HSI in THIS archive.
>You'll have no rapport which is where all influence is!
"Sorry mate, I wandered off. I'm not sure where it was, but there was
sunshine and music, anyway, about that P4 you wanted..." - and that's as
close as I am getting to the dark side.
> > They will often go completely cataleptic
>
>So all you've done is induced caltylepsy
is that a statement or a question?
>- if you just hold their
>arm tight you'll achive the same effect!!
Then why didn;t you say that.
How can you tell if someone is in a trance.... Hold their arm really tight.
hmm, doesn't work for me, but then my idea doesn't work for you, this only
goes to prove that there is no ONE method that will work for everybody.
> > To terminate the effect simply say something like "sorry, I
> > wandered off there for a moment..." and now with fresh
> > confidence "How are you?" and shake their hand.
>
>Again this process is completely Overt,
uh huh
>Not to mention overly difficult
Only if compared with something that is easier, but as you are offering no
alternatives, I guess the guy is stuck with this one idea!
> - they'll know you are doing
>someting.
Who cares, so long as they don't remember it.
>And they will probably be scared of you for the rest of their
>lives
You must be an incredibly overbearing person if you can illicit those types
of reactions. I don't threaten people to the point of being scared of me
(apart from my sisters boyfriends.) It is important that one is GENTLE
with this method. Use it exactly as describedat first; the first part of
adopt, adapt and improve is adopt. Bandler will teach you of the
suspension of disbelief - this is a skill you must master if you are to
include new ideas to your old ways.
> - which is fine if you are Derren Brown or a Hypnotherapist
Excellent, so you are comparing me with DB - I am flattered :-)
...Now I KNOW I should spend more time with this idea... ;)
> > You should not wait too long or they will wonder what the f' is
> > wrong with you - and often become a little aggitated - not a good
> > outcome.
>
>LOL!!! BC I enjoy are private chats
"Some strange use of the word 'private' with which I was not previously
aware" Arthur Dent! lol
>- you are the master of
>understatement!!
I have other useful skills as well ;)
> > The cue of "too long" will be the moment they perform an access.
> > As they go for it, you step in with your apology. Lest they have
> > an independant thought - tut tut tut that would never do {never
> > do what to whom?}
>
>Thats a funny comment,
It was not intended as such - any form of trance effectively removes free will.
> however thats a person in front of you, you
>can induce trance naturally and easily without scary commands
>and "Hypnovoice" "!
Absolutely, that is why I did not use either of these in my example.
> > By doing this. You will soon know what someone in a trance looks
> > like.
>
>Maybe, however its more likely that youu see someone who looks
>a)Confused
>b)Pissed Off
You really haven't managed to get this to work for you??
It really is as simple as I make it sound!
>BC there is nothing wrong with this process, and this is not a
>criticism of you :- ))it is a criticism of The Hand Shake Interupt
>In General
>
>I'm not saying it won't work, but after 10 years of experience in
>hypnosis & NLP there are much more elegant and precise ways to
>induce covert waking trance
Are you going to share any of them with us HERE? I'm guessing not. Go on
prove me wrong if you dare. I would be intrigued to open my email and read
a full in depth analysis of a "less overly difficult" method.
>Keep Safe
Brilliant arguing with you, as ever :-)
I look forward to seeing which bits of my email you do not reply to...
Bc
>Mark
>
| Replies | Author | Yahoo! ID | Date | Size |
| 2247: Re: 30 Second Conversational Trance Induction | marcthomashogan | marcthomashogan | Thu 09/01/2003 | 22 KB |
| 2292: Re: 30 Second Conversational Trance Induction | Blue Chip | cs_bluechip | Fri 10/01/2003 | 34 KB |
