Derren Brown: Archive
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From: richard
Date: Sat May 3, 2003 8:55pm
Subject: Re: [Derren Brown] Re: Dog track thought....
Hi Keith - thanks for your 'inside' input! The basic problem is that there are
a variety of opinions out here of how it was done , a number of which seem more
or less feasible or practical possibilities. Taking what you wrote suugesting
DB & side-kick turning up at the Tote a while after the race had finished - it
could explain why there appeared to be very little punter activity around the
'pay-out' office ; whereas editing may have given the impression they did so
almost straight away once the race result had been announced ( in which case ,
it might be expected more winning ticket holders would have done like-wise,
even on a quiet night ).
I'm still trying to remember where I saw or heard the explanation DB gave about
the trick - namely that banging the security grill momentarily induced a state
of shock/ confusion in the cashier - a mental 'gap' that the mind objected to ,
and would readily allow itself to be filled with an acceptable suggestion ,
namely , the 'winning ticket' statements. I would have thought though that
being confronted by a rant from the goatee-d one , being dazzled by the film
crew's lighting rig , while catching a glimpse of a furry sound-boom waving
around in the background would be enough to shock & confuse any-one...But
perhaps DB's explanation ( I'm sure I didn't imagine it ! ) was just a 'red
herring' . My reservation about the cashier's state of mind , as per DB's
explanation , is that the combination of a shock + positive suggestion probably
would not be sufficient on its own to induce a 'negative hallucination' to
over-come a). the evidence of her own eyes , and b). the computer system
rejecting a pay-out on a losing ticket. From professional experience ,
producing hallucinations by hypnosis
and suggestion requires a good quality of trance. Relying off-the-cuff that the
cashier was a good prospect for an instantaneous induction into such a good
quality hypnotic state just doesn't seem DB's style - it would leave too much
to chance.
Despite all the conjecture ; its still a great stunt , however he did it!
TTFN
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From : "Keith Mander "
To : derrenbrown@y...
Date : 03 May 2003 18:32:19
Subject : [Derren Brown] Re: Dog track thought....
I work as on course bookie's assistant and have worked at a few dog
>tracks and also have a fair understanding of the Tote system as well
>as the computer technologies.
>
>As I understand it, the cash draw/computer combo system has been
>designed so that anyone can operate it without any knowledge of
>bookmaking (which is quite a skilled occupation). Most rails/ring
>bookies use computers these days but not at dog tracks - so I agree
>with the comment below that it would seem to be easier for Derren to
>use a bookie rather than the Tote.
>
>The cashier, although quite experienced will probably rarely take in
>an interest in the actual race and allow the computer to handle all
>the calculations/verifications of the 'winning ticket'. So I again
>agree that what he does really is difficult to explain as regardless
>to what he suggests, the machine will still reject the ticket and not
>display the amount to pay out.
>
>The only explination I can think of is that Derren deliberatly waited
>until some time after the end of the race to collect his winnings. By
>doing so, it is likely the cashier will be quite aware of how much to
>pay out for a particular stake. Derren then puts the cashier into some
>sort of hynosis/trance/whatever that makes her believe that the
>machine accepts the bet (as the real winning ticket) and then she pays
>out the correct sum calculated by herself.
>
>Any thoughts/questions?
>
>Keith
>
>PS - London tickets are still available.
>
>--- In a previous message, richardwrote:
>> I agree with Terry that getting a pay-out on a losing ticket
>involving computerised systems would be near on impossible. It may
>have been a switch as Paulo and other group members have suggested ,
>and perhaps some sharp editing deleted the moment the switch was made.
>> There are other points - DB wanted to create an 'effect' ; so what
>did the setting of a greyhound race provide to the mechanics of
>predictably making the effect work?
>> I may be wrong but generally does a standard g.h. race involve 6
>dogs ? Unlike horse racing , bets are frequently written down by Trap
>Number , not by the animal's name. If so , it would be possible to
>make 6 bets, on 6 individual tickets , stated as 6 numbers ; much
>easier for covert 'counting off' before the switch took place. One
>ticket would be a winner ; the winnings + plus the returned stake
>would offset part of the outlay ( and the overall outlay would , in TV
>budget terms at least, be a pittance ) - also one or two dogs would be
>'outsiders' at big odds & covered at much reduced stakes for a bigger
>return - even betting on the tote. Why use the Tote when there would
>have been 'rails' or 'ring' bookies at the same track, of whom some if
>not all would be without computerised system to confirm winning
>tickets & having fewer staff involved ? DB's assistant could also
>figure in it - as priming the assistant , off camera , by suggestion
>to believe he was presenting a losing ticket instead of , in fact , a
>winning ticket would seem both more reliable & easier method than -
>as Terry has pointed out - the prospect of trying to dupe a ( probably
>experienced ) cashier backed up by a computerised system? Wonder too
>if an intelligent person with training in Law would on national TV
>pull a trick that , at face value , would leave him wide open to
>> criminal proceedings ?! :0)
>> TTFN
>> Rich
>
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